Steve Fanagan is an award winning sound designer/re-recording mixer whose past work includes "Room”, “The Last Days On Mars”, and “Game Of Thrones” among other TV shows and films. I spent an hour talking to Steve about his philosophy of sound, workflow, and his approach to mixing and supervising Hulu’s latest hit series “Normal People”. There is nothing normal about Steve’s work on the show, it is abnormally incredible to say the least.

Based on Sally Rooney’s New York Times best-selling novel, Normal People tracks the tender but complicated relationship of Marianne and Connell from the end of their school days in a small town in the west of Ireland to their undergraduate years at Trinity College. At school, he’s well-liked and popular, while she’s lonely, proud, and intimidating. But when Connell comes to pick up his mother from her cleaning job at Marianne’s house, a strange and indelible connection grows between the two teenagers – one they are determined to conceal. A year later, they’re both studying in Dublin and Marianne has found her feet in a new social world but Connell hangs at the sidelines, shy and uncertain. Steve and I discussed how he gave such an intimate show such a massive soundscape, here’s our conversation.

“You inevitably have to try and meet the slightly daunting standard that’s been set by the rest of the cast and crew to do the show justice.”

 Vinny - During pre-production, how would you describe the creative direction discussed for the show in terms of sound?

Steve - Lenny Abrahamson (the director of the first six episodes and one of the executive producers of the series) likes to involve sound at an early stage in the process. With the full backing of the producers, we were discussing things in pre-production, we had access to scripts, and we were in contact with the location sound mixer (Niall O'Sullivan), which is a real gift to the work. The producers also spoke with us about budget, schedule, and how/where we would do the sound post work. Along with my colleague, Niall Brady (our Dialogue and ADR Supervising Sound Editor), we were discussing and planning it from that same point.

Because of this early engagement, I was able to arrange access to a number of the show's specific locations and spent four days around the shoot recording and later building a specific sound library for the series. I shared this with the picture editors so they had location-specific material and other sounds I thought would be useful to them for their assemblies and fine cutting. I also shared this with the two additional sound effects editors we worked with on a number of episodes, Brendan Rehill and Anna Bertmark, so we were all working from the same palette of sounds, which we felt were a strong set of building blocks for what we were trying to achieve with the series. 

The original source material, the novel, is completely told from the point of view of the characters. You're always in their head. The question that everyone had, who had read the book, was how do you adapt that for the screen? Lenny and Hettie Macdonald (the second block director), along with the series writers, Sally Rooney (also the book’s author), Alice Birch and Mark O’Rowe, and the producers, Element Pictures, figured out this amazing way to make you feel like you are with the characters in the scene. You're intimately in their space and somehow feel like you’re in the room with them.

Having the confidence to sit with characters and observe them, rather than have them talk all the time or have them tell us everything in an overly expositional way, feels cinematic. We're allowed to observe their body language and all those little details that as human beings we use to navigate the world and non-verbally express ourselves. It takes a very special kind of show to do that. It's been an absolute dream to be involved in and it presented such interesting challenges because you're starting with material and performances that are so strong.

The cinematography is really beautiful too. When all of those things are adding up for you as you're watching the show, it's impossible not to get excited. You inevitably have to try and meet the slightly daunting standard that’s been set by the rest of the cast and crew to do the show justice. It's been a beautiful journey for us and it's just been an absolute dream to get to collaborate with Lenny again.

Also, given this is Niall's seventh and my fifth collaboration with Lenny, we are coming to the work with all of that previous experience in mind. We consider what we've learned from the previous rich collaborations and try to develop and re-jig our process based on that learning. We wanted to bring that cinematic quality to this work and ensure it got the same attention to detail as any of our long form work together. 

Each previous project has had its unique set of challenges but all the previous work feeds into the starting point of the current production. The most apparent difference on Normal People was that it was a twelve-part TV series, rather than a film. We knew that didn't mean that the attention to detail we aimed for on the features wouldn't apply here, we had to aim to approach the twelve parts as we would a single feature. 

Vinny - There are so many delicate and intimate scenes in the show where, for example, one or two characters are simply laying in bed. In those moments there's not a lot going on both visually and in terms of audio. How did you handle the sound in those sequences?

Steve - It’s a really interesting challenge when you know that you're going to have these quiet passages. A great way, on a simple level, to establish that sort of dynamic is to think about the contrast that there will be to those intimate moments elsewhere in the show. For example, in episode one where Connell and Marianne first kiss. There’s been a lot of anticipation from both the characters and, hopefully, the audience building up to this moment. 

The sequence begins with him calling to her house and begins as a ‘real world’ scene. You're outside on the doorstep with him, you're hearing bird song, nature, wind, and all of that rich natural texture of that rural, picturesque location in Sligo. Then inside the house, we're playing with room tones, clock ticks, the nature outside, and other small details that allow you to build a layered and textured environment for this beautiful house. When you get into the scene itself, this intimate exchange between these two characters, the closer they get to each other, the more we are pulling away from these environmental sounds.

By having a baseline set for the outside world, which is slowly being removed over time, you have an opportunity to also heighten some of the smaller sonic details. In this show, breath, the sound of a swallow, a tummy rumble or the sound of a very small hand movement, suddenly becomes something that can be heightened and can be louder than it would usually play; it becomes subjective between these characters and about their proximity to each other, and about how that makes them feel. That kind of intangible electricity when two people get close together. It's heightened. You're trying to figure out if there's an opportunity in the sound design to lean into that.

In those intimate scenes, you have that opportunity because the camera is so close to them, often it's handheld and you're in their space with them. It never feels voyeuristic. It feels really close, really honest, and open; like you’re part of it. With the sound pulling out some of the larger world details and focusing in on the micro exchanges between them, hopefully, you're giving the audience an opportunity to lean into those moments, to get a little bit closer to their screen and to experience that moment with Connell and Marianne in the same sort of closeness and intimacy that they're experiencing. Its part of the real magic of Lenny’s film making that makes this possible.

Vinny - What was the process like working with the directors/producers/editors? How did you develop a workflow with them and how would you describe the workflow?

Steve - On all of the films that we've worked on with Lenny, Nathan Nugent has been his editor. Both myself and Niall have had the fortune of working with Nathan on a number of other films, too, at this point. We’ve built a really rewarding relationship over the years. In their picture editing process they make some very interesting sound and music choices. That being said, for our sound work, it's never like we’re starting with a blank canvas. You're starting with a scene that has an intent in terms of sound. Hopefully what you're doing is trying to evolve that, and this is very much in collaboration between the sound department, Lenny, and Nathan, to figure out what the most cinematic, naturalistic and evolved version of it is sound-wise. That becomes a lovely back and forth between the four of us in the editorial process.

Most of the time we don't formally spot shows, we just get sent cuts or scenes and we start to work on things from there. There's a lot of clues in those. As I mentioned, Nathan is always working on the sound in his edit with Lenny. That’s our start point. If I have a question, I'll call Nathan. As myself and Niall work through it, I'll send the cutting room back a work-in-progress DME and they can start to cut with that in their Avid. We evolve the work over time in that way. 

We kept this same process going for the second block of six episodes, which were directed by Hettie and edited by Stephen O'Connell, but we did do formal spotting sessions for these episodes, so that we could build our relationship and we could get direction and insights to their episodes from them, as it was our first time to work together. Again, we evolved the sound work over time by passing ideas back and forth throughout the editorial process. Block 2’s cutting room was in London which suited me, as I am based in London, too, and Niall could FaceTime in for the viewings. Our Dialogue Editor for several of these episodes, Nigel Mills, is also London-based so he was able to attend with me.

One of the things about this series, in terms of that stillness that we were hopefully able to achieve, is that music is used sparingly and very judiciously. It's never wall to wall, it is carefully chosen score or source. There are often passages of five or more minutes in all twelve episodes where there is no music. In this space, we get to develop that sound world with a little bit more detail and to allow viewers to sit with it, so that when it does disappear in those intimate moments, hopefully, it is subconsciously ‘felt’ more. It’s fair to say that those opportunities only present themselves if the director and/or the editor are thinking about them and designing them into the dynamic of the series. The composer, Lenny’s long-term collaborator, Stephen Rennicks, is also interested in this way of working. He is often the first person in a final mix to suggest we take music out! All of those people are making decisions that will offer wonderful opportunities for the sound design of the series.

Vinny - There’s a sequence in episode two where Hide and Seek by Imogen Heap plays, the visuals are gentle and soft while the mix is heavy and powerful. The series contains many moments like this, could you talk about crafting these contrasting moments in the mix?

Steve - This was very much led by Lenny and Nathan, and reflected what they had done in their original cut. It’s an interesting one because at that point we're sort of halfway through episode two and it's the first time where we drop all sound and become purely music-driven. It’s this beautiful, dreamy sequence about Marianne and Connell’s secret relationship. I had an earlier version of the mix where we didn't do that. But by pulling away the sound effects and the sync sound, it allows us to observe the subjective intensity of what the two characters are sharing. Whether it's a glance across the corridor or them in his car parked up at the beach, there’s a power in just observing that allows you to move closer to them than if we're trying to play every cut with sound. It feels like a good contrast to some of that closeup stuff we were talking about, too. 

The scene you mentioned just felt like the right way to go. As much as I liked the sound work we had done, you realize that this scene is better without sync sound and sound effects. That's all you're ever trying to figure out in this job. What’s best for the scene? What's best for the sequence? How does this work in the context of the whole? Is this the best option and does it help the storytelling? Lenny's instincts and direction, and Nathan's guidance, in these sequences really bring focus to these moments.

“As much as I liked the sound work we had done, you realize that this scene is better without sync sound and sound effects.”

Vinny - There are moments throughout the series where the music becomes super prominent, the sound decisions in these moments are bold but feel right.

Steve - It’s one of those shows where there's lots of eyes and ears on it, in a really positive way. In addition to Lenny and Nathan, the series producer, Catherine Magee, Ed Guiney, who is Lenny’s main producer, Emma Norton, one of the series’ executive producers, and Hettie and Stephen, were all very involved in the mixes and music choices for the series.

There was a lot of very creative, very interested individuals involved in the decision-making process of everything related to the show. They thought long and hard about music. Between themselves, Juliet Martin and Maggie Phillips (the music supervisors), some really strong bold choices were made with music. It’s so much fun to get to mix this material and to figure out the space for dialogue and sound effects around them.

The needle-drop music in this show was really important. Commercial music was featured much more in this production than it has been on any of Lenny's previous productions. What I think the music does is give the show a soundtrack that belongs to the characters. It’s the music they are listening to. It’s the songs that are important to them and soundtracks their lives. There’s so much music from your teenage years that stays with you and literally soundtracks the rest of your life. You hear a song you haven't heard in twenty years and suddenly you’re nineteen again and you're on your way to class! You're thinking about that one night where you and your pals were out and there was a great party or whatever it might've been. Music is so evocative. I feel like the work that they've all done with the music and those choices created an authentic playlist for these characters.

Vinny - A lot of the show has reoccurring exteriors and interiors. How did you keep things interesting in terms of the sounds of backgrounds and ambiances?  

Steve - It was really useful to go to Ireland and record for four days at the specific locations, which I mentioned earlier. Via the amazing producers, Catherine Magee and Catherine Dunne, I was lucky enough to get access to a bunch of places where they had shot.

For Trinity College, I got access to all of the main locations used. I went and did some rural exterior recordings for Sligo. For the school interiors, I got access to the real school and spent a good bit of time distant mic-ing myself running up and down the stairs, opening and closing doors and lockers, and trying to create individual ambient elements that we could use to build up those spaces. I got to record at each of the houses we see on screen and build up a broad library of room-tones, ambiances, and atmospheres that felt unique and characterful for the series. The gift of having done that is that when I hit a scene, I always had a room tone or something related to the space that I can use as a starting point.

When it comes to sound editing, I like to work on ambiances first, because I always feel like there's a lovely part of doing ambiances when you get used to the show, to where the cuts are, where the scene changes are, and you begin to feel out the shape of a scene or sequence and discover opportunities for sound effects, foley, and more abstract sound design. You get a really good sense of the dramatic shape of an episode as you watch with the ambiances because you're watching it quite slowly and working through it in detail.

I always start with a very neutral tone and in this case my starting point was the recordings I made. I was careful when making those recordings to record really long takes. It’s important to have five or ten minute takes, so you capture a decent amount of variety in each space. With each location I had enough variety that I wasn’t reaching for the same thing every time. Sometimes you might start to cut a scene that's in location A, and then later in the episode, you're back in location A. My first step may well be to grab those ambiances and move them up, but then once I started looking at the scene, you have to reshape and recut that material and develop it in a different, unique way to work dramatically.

Oftentimes, that means finding new things. In a show, while you may return to a location, it's going to be a different time of the day, month or year, and is also going to be a different mood based on where we are in the story. In sound editorial, you're trying to pick and choose the elements that you think would exist in the space. As you're refining and beginning to put a decent shape on those scenes, you're also beginning to figure out what you think you need to put a focus on; what's important to the point of view of the character or characters that are represented in the scene. Those elements naturally have to change once you start drilling into it. For me, that process of distillation is crucial. My first pass might be something basic or something sort of not dissimilar to what's gone before in that location. But, once I dive into it, I realize, "Okay, I've got to figure out what the personality of this is, I need to figure out what's happening in this scene and how this character is hearing the world at this moment in time”. 

There's always a point of view in film and I think it's never just a matter of hearing what you see. It's always a matter of hearing what you see, but through a lens of some description. Generally with work like this, that's a character's point of view. You're always trying to figure out those sorts of possibilities in things. You get your clues from the film editing, the performances, and from your director as you shape the mix.

The sound for a series like Normal People isn't overt in the same way an action or sci-fi series might be, but it is equally considered, designed and shaped, albeit in more natural-sounding, subtler ways. A big part of the job is bringing that same care and attention to detail to work that hopefully feels of the world of the show. We want the viewer to believe the sound of the series, for it to work on an unconscious, not distracting, but definitive way. Our challenge is often about figuring out how to do this with the director, editor, and the sound crew we are working with. In this particular show, given its Irish locations (I’m Irish, too), we are especially familiar with the sonic world, it's very evocative in a personal way. It felt vitally important for us to represent and evoke them as Marianne and Connell would experience them.

The story allows for some really interesting, subtle, environmental sound contrasts throughout. There’s a distinct contrast between where Connell and Marianne live and there's lots of opportunity in a scene to express their different backgrounds, social class, and home lives in sound. He lives in a housing estate, where the houses are next door to each other. Chances are you hear kids playing outside, the neighbor's dog barking, cars coming and going; you might hear music or the TV coming from someone else's house.

Her house is totally different. It’s separate from the rest of the world. It's set back from the road so you don't hear traffic. It's quite rich in terms of the nature around it. There are beautiful trees and fields. You start to think, "Well, the variety of birds here is different. They're not going to be drowned out by more urban sounds”. Hopefully, there is something in establishing two quite different sound worlds for them, that underscores their different existences. Those kinds of opportunities, thinking out those scenarios, beginning to tease what is important to the character, is what you’re always looking for in that pass. Then our ultimate filter on a scene is when we offer that material back to Lenny and Nathan, and Hettie and Stephen, so that they can respond to it and see if it feels true to them. The work evolves from there.

With work like this, you're always trying to find something that feels honest to the moment and feels as honest as the performance is, and as honest as the storytelling is. You just want to find a sound that feels appropriate. It’s that classic idea that I think is a Randy Thom quote. He says, "We're looking to put the right sound in the right place at the right time." That sounds beautifully simple, but it’s the trickiest challenge; once the sound is slightly off or in the wrong place, you're likely to disrupt the viewer's experience. At that point, you failed.

Vinny - The last TV show you were actively involved in was the very first season of Game of Thrones as a Foley Editor and a Sound Effects Editor, which was ten years ago. This was the first full series show that you've been both the re-recording mixer and supervising sound editor on. Being that you’ve predominantly worked on films, how did the editorial process differ?

Steve - Because of our sound team’s sensibility and particularly because of the work we've done with Lenny over the years, there was no question that we were going to do anything less cinematic than what we would usually try to achieve. It just happens to be six hours of material rather than ninety minutes or two hours. It’s also been broken up in a different way, in this case, over twelve episodes.

The approach to the work is slightly different in that you're working on smaller chunks. In another way it's not that dissimilar to working on a film in that you're focusing on exactly what's in front of you in a very detailed manner. You're also trying to consider the sound not just across a scene or episode, but also across the whole series. The difference for us here was that we suddenly had more material to deal with given the six-hour duration. 

We didn’t have a big sound crew, but we did have a really good one! I mentioned Nigel, Brendan, and Anna earlier, who are all also experienced sound designers and supervising sound editors in their own right. Our Foley crew was an Irish company called The Foley Lab. Caoimhe Doyle (the Foley artist), Jonathan Reynolds (the Foley mixer) and Ciara Mahon (the Foley assistant) really did an amazing job with all of the intimate scenes throughout the series. They worked on all twelve episodes. Our Foley editors were Michelle McCormack, Michelle Cunniffe, and Brendan Rehill.

Myself and Niall worked alone on dialogue, and effects for the first block of episodes, up until episode six. This is where we began to expand the crew with an additional dialogue editor and an additional effects editor. It was a little bit different for us in that there was more to manage across the twelve episodes. When we were mixing certain episodes, some of the crew were working on the sound editorial of other episodes. There were many moving parts but the team was strong and our communication was really good. I wanted to make sure I got some sound editorial time on all episodes, so my colleague, Michelle Cunniffe, mixed three episodes in the second block, which I attended and supervised, too. We’ve worked together a lot over the years, so it was great to work with her again. 

There's a lot of really strong relationships involved and there was a lot of team support throughout the whole show. We worked at a facility in Dublin called Outer Limits and the crew there are really brilliant, supportive, and lovely to work with. They had just built a really beautiful Dolby Atmos mixing theatre, which is where we mixed the series. The producers were a huge help in this, as was our post-production supervisor, Tricia Perrot, and the facility producer, Jen McCann. They all helped make things as easy as possible and supported us throughout. Over the course of the schedule, you refine things and you figure out better ways to evolve the workflow as you deliver each of the episodes.

Vinny - Could you speak on the technical aspects of the mix? Are there any plugins that played a strong role? Or any sound design or sound editing tips/tricks you’re open to sharing?

Steve - The first thing I did before we started on the job was built a template that I thought would be what we would mix and also sound edit in. The idea in doing that was, as we pass material back and forth between the sound editorial team, we're all working in the same tracks with the same plugins in the same session set up. All of the session material is interchangeable between us and it makes the mix building process easier.

There’s a lot of PhoenixVerb in the mix and this was my first time really diving into that. I also used Altiverb, where I had taken some impulse responses of the locations that I recorded in. In some cases, those were really useful and in others, I felt like I wanted to use them as a starting point for the scene, but still wanted to create something a little bit more versatile using PhoenixVerb. All of the exterior slap-back is Slapper which I absolutely love. We also used it for music in any of those livelier party and nightclub scenes that happen in the show. It's a beautiful plugin for refining how something reflects off a surface. 

FabFilter Pro-Q 3 was all over everything, I really love how versatile the FabFilter software is. I was using their De-Esser as well, which I think is brilliant for dialogue. It's a different interface to use, but once you get used to it I think the results are really superb in terms of grabbing those transients. I was using the FabFilter Compressor but I do not use a lot of compression. We used WNS and Cedar for Noise reduction. Niall and Nigel both used RX as they were editing and cleaning up the production sound. From a mix point of view, all of the plugins mentioned start in bypass and only get turned on on a case by case basis. I try to mix in the most minimalistic way to make the scene sound as good as it can be with the fewest plugins I can; using only what feels appropriate.

It's fun to pull sounds in and feel like they work for the scene during the editorial process but I think until you're mixing, you don’t really know. I like to start the temp mix process in editorial with eq, panning, and spatialization so that I can see how things are going to feel when they hit the reverb or they hit the delay, and to judge whether it feels real. To be able to do all of that and have it as a continuum from the start of the editorial process to the end of the mix, I find really helpful. It’s also a testament to Lenny for bringing us on to the show early and allowing us to figure out ways to temp mix and to evolve and develop that work over time. Hopefully, by the time we are final mixing, we’ve already put a good shape on things together and made some technical decisions, so we can just focus on the creative ideas in that finalization process.

“…the only decisions to make when you're mixing are the ones that are good for the show.”

Vinny - Some of your original music is used in the show, how did that end up happening?

Steve - It’s a lovely bonus. As I mentioned, I have a really good relationship with Nathan, Lenny’s editor, having worked together quite a bit over the last ten years. I like to work on music myself, which I do in my free time. My background in sound began with music, it’s something that has been around me since my teens. Nathan would be one of the handful of people who I share stuff with as I'm working on it and I’d ask him, "What do you think of this? Is this any good?”. He's someone whose opinion I really value.

I had shared some stuff with him that I'd been working on and he began to temp with it a little bit, which was exciting in and of itself. Obviously, I wasn't expecting anything beyond that. A few of the pieces stuck and felt like they were working well. I'm feeling incredibly privileged for that to happen. It's not where my music work would usually end up, in a film or TV show that I'm working on, but it's a really lovely thing to have happened. It’s lovely to think that they're in there because they felt like they were working for the show.

Vinny - What was it like to be mixing your own music along with all of the other sound elements that you also had the role of supervising? 




Steve - It was definitely unusual to be mixing pieces of my own music in a show but I hope, similarly with my sounds effects work, that I'm able to divorce myself from the situation. I'm not favoring them! What's really interesting about it, and what I think, over the years I've really learned about the work, is that the only decisions to make when you're mixing are the ones that are good for the show. That can mean turning down the music, even if it's your music. It means getting rid of effects, turning down effects or refining effects. All of that is a natural, lovely process and part of the unique journey you go on with a show.


You have to ask, how does this sit in the world on screen? Whenever we approach mixing music, particularly when it's music that's been used to score a moment, we try to figure out how it should play in relation to whatever is going on. It doesn't necessarily need to be big and bold to make its point. In a series like this, with music, it's that delicate figuring out of where the music's sitting in the mix to hopefully give it its place, impact, and power in the storytelling. 

It's that subconscious pleasurable viewing experience where maybe you don't even realize there's music or there are sound effects; the scene just plays out feeling real to you. With music, it's always about trying to figure out appropriate placement in terms of how it begins, flows, and pushes and pulls in and around whatever it might be scoring. You are trying to find a space that makes it feel natural and like it couldn't be played any other way.

Vinny - Is there anything else you’d like to say about your experience working on this show? 


Steve - It's really lovely to get to talk about the work because you spend so much time in it that it's only when you have an opportunity afterward to talk through the process that you get to think a little bit and reflect on it. There's a brilliant bunch of people we worked with; the sound department, the two directors, the editors, and the producers, all of whom allowed us to craft something unique. There’s a great pleasure in this work where you're a small cog in a much bigger machine and hopefully you're doing your bit, your piece of the puzzle correctly, and that only really happens when you've got good direction and you've been given space to try things. This show was definitely one of those magical experiences. It was a big team effort and I feel very lucky to be part of it. 

Stream “Normal People” on Hulu at https://www.hulu.com/series/normal-people-57048262-2ca5-41ee-9b57-53bb9b9e1596

Follow Steve Fanagan on Twitter @stevefanagan